Talk:Patrick J. Ryan (chaplain)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Patrick J. Ryan (chaplain)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Darth Stabro (talk · contribs) 04:06, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: HistoryTheorist (talk · contribs) 00:57, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I am interested in reviewing this article. If you are able, I would like to be able to access the paywalled sources, but I understand if you can't give me access. Will start reviewing soon. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 00:57, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you send me your email address via the Wikipedia email form, I can send you PDFs of the relevant pages. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:19, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Thanks! I will most likely send you substantive comments over the weekend. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 01:35, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Real life has not given me much opportunities to review in earnest, I'm hoping to have comments by the end of this week. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:07, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No worries! I totally understand! ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 03:26, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

• You might want to leave an in-line citation for Ryan's retirement date.

• Done. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 02:40, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Perhaps change the wording Only briefly a parish priest after his ordination for the Archdiocese of Saint Paul in 1927? It makes it sound like Ryan was a priest and then quit to become part of the Army.

• That is essentially what happened. Do you think that sentence needs to be rephrased to be clear that his military service was as a priest chaplain and that he didn't simply quite the priesthood? ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 02:40, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• This isn't super relevant to the GA-worthiness of the article, I think that it will likely pass, but the manual of style advises using MDY format (e.g. December 3, 1902) instead of DMY format. I would recommend changing the dates to that format and adding a {{use mdy dates}} template to automatically switch the MDY format in citations.

• I was following MOS:MILFORMAT which states that articles about U.S. military subjects should be DMY,s but it seems like other U.S. military biographies do that use that so I'll change it back. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 02:40, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops you're right! You can change it back to DMY if you want! This is my first military biography review so thanks for pointing that out. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:20, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to be really hit or miss - Jim Mattis is mdy, but Douglas MacArthur is dmy. I'll just leave it as it is. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 13:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• You might also want to write out the abbreviations in the image captions, as not everybody will be easily able to pick up what MG stands for.

• Sounds good! ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 02:40, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Darth Stabro:, Thank you for sending me sources to my email! This aspect of the GA review might take awhile as I am waiting for The Wikipedia Library is currently reviewing my application for newspapers.com access. Although I will not check all of the sources listed, it might take a while for me to access the ones I do want to verify. I want to be transparent about the review's progress, so thank you for your patience as I slowly work through sourcing. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 20:54, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it looks like you used the padlock to indicate newspapers.com access, I can technically review all the sources thanks to the email. May try to complete sooner, depending on what real life allows me to accomplish. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 02:58, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the meantime:

• I'm looking through source #7, and you might want to add some biographical details found in the last paragraph, specifically the brief mention about Fr. Ryan's time in the Hawaii and other activities mentioned there. Would be an interesting addition to the article, especially that he helped with organizing the first chaplain corps for the Brazilian army.

• Wonderful, that slipped by me! ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 02:40, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The time in the Hawaiian Islands seems to have already been mentioned in the first paragraph of Military career, when he is mentioned being at Fort Shafter and Fort Kamehameha.~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 02:49, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Ah! Then that's my ctrl-f laziness on display there. All good . ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 02:52, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Sadly I can't find anything about when the Brazilian military training happened, so I'm not sure where to put it. Given that the source was published in March 1946, it seems like it'd have to be before World War II but I'm just not sure where it should be placed. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 02:55, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Alrighty then, it was worth a shot, especially since he did receive decorations from the Brazilian army, most likely in helping them organize Brazil's chaplain corps. Will keep my eye on the lookout if I find anything ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:02, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Question: Source #7 indicates that Fr. Ryan received a Bronze Medal of Valor with star from Italy. I'm not super familiar with military awards, but is this part of the Order of the Crown of Italy?

• Not entirely sure. Dare we hope the rest of the Internet Archive pops back up this weekend... ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 02:40, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Y Sourcing from #7 checks out, pending comments you have responded to. I would recommend adding the Brazilian decoration to the awards and decorations section, and would enjoy seeing some info about his work in Brazil, but won't make a big deal about it for GA.
• Y source #1 mostly checks out
  • On further review, I do not see where you are getting his mother's full name and his father's name from the listed source. I could be straining my eyes and could have missed something.

• I think I found that from a FindMyGrave site, which isn't considered reliable so I'll see if I can find a reliable source for that.~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 13:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's also possible that it's in the Internet Archive source, which sadly is still down right now... ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 13:35, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Y source #16 checks out, especially the quote. Don't know if you need ellipsis if you are quoting Fr. Ryan's words directly though.

• The ellipsis are because it's not a continual quote, I skipped a few phrases in the middle. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 13:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @Darth Stabro: I believe that I have done as much reviewing as I can, given that source #2 is an IA source and currently inaccessible. I would be willing to pass the review without looking at the source as long as you drop his father's name and mother's full name from the article for now until you are able to verify the sources. Overall, this article is in very good shape (maybe not perfect), and although I would always like to see some mention of Msgr. Ryan's work with Brazilian troops, it is not a major aspect of his life and work. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 22:44, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Hi! I think I've managed to find a solution for the Find a Grave issue; Rather than citing Find a Grave as a website, citing the grave monuments themselves and linking the photographs to them. Per Wikipedia talk:Citing sources/FAQ, citing public gravestones is acceptable. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:28, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I also managed to find a source for his father dying of typhoid outside of the unavailable source as well. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:35, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Great! I do see the find a grave site I can't see the monument cited inline. Otherwise, I'm gonna pass this tomorrow ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 05:08, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I removed it due to another editor stating that using it would be a primary source and technically they could be anyone's graves. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 17:51, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I might seem a bit picky, but I would still lean toward omitting the mother's full name and the father's name out of caution, because it still leans toward original research a bit and the graves could still be anybody's. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 20:17, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I seem to recall his father's first name being in the unavailable IA source but I'll go ahead and remove just to be sure. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 22:44, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks! I will pass right now... ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 00:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]